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Utilities lawsuit against Sultan gets second chance
By Polly Keary, Editor
A group of Sultan residents seeking a refund of some utility fees they say were mismanaged will get a second chance to get a court hearing.
The Utility Stakeholders Group is suing for a return of funds they say were improperly used to pay for the wages of city employees for work not related to utilities.
In mid-October a judge at first refused to hear the case, saying the Utilities Stakeholders Group hadn’t followed the proper procedure. Before suing a city over mismanagement of funds, a plaintiff is supposed to appeal to the State Auditor. Only if the auditor refuses to investigate can a plaintiff then take a city to court.
But the Utility Stakeholders Group filed a motion to reconsider, arguing that the group had gone to the auditor and the Attorney General, and both declined to investigate before the fall of 2013, which is when the next city audit is scheduled to take place.
Oct. 31, Snohomish County Superior Court judge David Kurtz granted the motion to reconsider, and the case will now go to the next step.
The Utility Stakeholders Group alleges that since 2009, the city has charged too much staff time to the utility fund.
City run utilities are each managed in separate funds, and each fund is supposed to pay for itself, and can’t pay for anything else.
The law allows city governments to divvy up the cost of staff salaries between funds when staff manage several funds at once, as they typically do in small cities.
But the plaintiffs think that the utilities fund is being used to cover unrelated staff time, which they believe makes it an unlawful tax.
“They are saying that one day a week of staff time went to garbage, water and sewer, or that 60 percent of the staff time went to those three things,” said Utility Stakeholders Group attorney Eric Stahlfield. “To me that seems far more than what they actually spent.”
The group believes the money is being used to supplement the general fund.
“Here, plaintiffs allege the city is raising revenue through its utility rates to pay for general-not utility governmental-purposes,” reads a legal document written by the group’s attorney.
Stahfield said that his clients aren’t yet asking for a specific amount of money, and there aren’t plans as yet as to how that money would be divided.
Currently, the case is in the discovery phase, in which each side seeks information and builds its arguments. A court date for a hearing has not been set.
So far, the city of Sultan has spent about $10,000 in legal costs defending the case.
“It has not been discussed with council as to what our next steps are,” said Sultan mayor Carolyn Eslick.
Pennie Marshall
November 21, 2012 at 9:37 pm
Does the amount of a potential refund justify the expense it will cost taxpayers in litigation? Is this a backdoor attempt to destroy the City of Sultan’s A+ credit rating and bankrupt the city to force the city to un-incorporate like Gold Bar is facing right now?
I am appalled with such a ridiculous lawsuit, especially when a city gets audited regularly and has an A+ credit rating. Why is it okay for residents to file a lawsuit against the city, accusing the city of mismanaging funds when the city is audited regularly? This clearly would have been flagged in an audit. This lawsuit has already cost Sultan taxpayers over $10k in legal fees to defend itself against this lawsuit and this does not even include what it will cost now it is moving forward with the discovery phase and the overall litigation and trial. Discovery is extremely expensive and if it goes to trial I don’t even want to think about what it will cost tax payers.
It should be a Washington State Statute that if someone or a group of people want to file a lawsuit against a city, they should have to pay all of the other parties legal costs upfront (by obtaining a bond or paying cash in to a trust account) and then if the person or persons who filed the lawsuit win, the city would have to pay their own litigation costs, but if the person or persons who filed the lawsuit lost, it would not cost the city a dime. With a law in place like this, it would deter against lawsuits like these.
I believe this is a back door attempt to bankrupt the City of Sultan due to enormous litigation expenses defending itself which would ruin its A+ Credit Rating and would force the city to go bankrupt this is exactly what is happening to Gold Bar right now.
Gold Bar will have to un-incorporate because of outrageous legal fees incurred that it cannot afford because of a lawsuit their city is defending itself against. This is not acceptable and should not be tolerated. It is a waste of tax payers’ money and the city’s time.
This behavior should be stopped. Cities need to be accountable, but this can be accomplished through audits, reporting, and level heads.
Kathy
November 28, 2012 at 6:30 am
Goooooo residents!! If the city does go bankrupt and you’re going to blame anything for it, you could blame the ridiculous salaries of the city employees (mostly the “city manager’s”)….. by the way, why does a city of around 5000 need a mayor AND a city manager? Maybe the city wouldn’t be getting sued if the utility rates weren’t two times that of most other cities. And they keep raising the utility costs and employee salaries while the rest of universe is experiencing the recession…..
Ray E. George
November 29, 2012 at 3:40 am
Penne Marshall, where to begin? Let’s just take a scalpel to your assertions in the order you gave them, skipping the repetitive ones.
1. “I’m appalled with such a ridiculous lawsuit.” The judge ruled that the complaint has merit. He read it; did you?
2. “The city is regularly audited.” Yes, Penne, you are right, and the auditor, for several years has been telling the city that they need to abide by the rules regarding allocation of overhead expenses to enterprise funds. The problem is: they don’t. It was not until the ‘We the People” started to pressure them, that they even developed a plan for budgeting allocations. Such a plan is required by the auditor, but theirs still isn’t fully compliant.
3. “This lawsuit has already cost taxpayers over $10k in legal fees, and no telling how high it could go.” This suit would never have happened if the city had followed the law and rules of the auditor. The city could stop this tomorrow, but if history is our guide, they won’t.
4. “It should be a Washington State Statute that, if someone wants to file a lawsuit against a city, they should have to pay all of the city’s legal costs upfront.” Maybe on Mars, but not in America; we’re not a fascistic state yet. What a ludicrous thing to say.
5. “I believe this is a back door attempt to bankrupt the city.” Not so. You apparently choose to believe the un-truths being tossed about at city hall.
6. “This behavior (lawsuit) should be stopped.” By hanging? Or, would firing squads be more humane? The city could stop this tomorrow, if they chose to do what is right.
7. “Cities need to be accountable, but this can be accomplished through audits, reporting, and level heads.” Government officials must be accountable; I agree. What happens when they’re not? What happens when the heads are level, but also corrupt?
8. “You can honestly say there is no way utility bills are higher in Sultan than surrounding towns and cities.” You cannot honestly say they are not higher. The facts simply are not on your side for this argument.
9. “Call Waste Management and ask what you would pay.” Waste Management is not authorized to service this area. But, Allied Waste is, and extensive evidence has been collected to show that they charge half what the city does. Repeat, HALF.
10. “What officials are getting paid is expensive, but officials have taken pay cuts of their own and last year presented to council not to increase their salaries.” Not so! Payroll has gone up every year. Right now, the non-union employees are fighting to get a 2.7% increase, across the board, because that’s what the city negotiated with the union. Just like in D.C., they’re saying that not getting this raise is really a cut in pay.
11. Penne, the rest of your comments from 11/28 at 4:23 pm are nothing but 1%/99% class warfare B.S.. Actually, the Sultan Utility Stakeholders Group are defending the 99%; in this town, it’s the city staff that belongs to the 1%.
12. “I’m so tired of people complaining about paying their bills.” This group is not complaining about paying its bills. This is about stopping the corrupt and blatant practice of billing utility ratepayers for overhead costs that are neither necessary, nor beneficial to the utilities, as mandated by law and the auditor. Under the law, utilities must not pay for general government functions. The law is not being followed in Sultan.
13. “Funds are not being mismanaged.” This suit is not a matter of mismanagement; it is a matter of misappropriation of funds. If you’d done your research, you would have read the complaint and already known that.
Ray George
November 29, 2012 at 4:57 am
Penne Marshall, where to begin? Let’s just take a scalpel to your assertions in the order you gave them, skipping the repetitive ones.
1. I’m appalled with such a ridiculous lawsuit.” The judge ruled that the complaint has merit. He read it; did you?
2. “The city is regularly audited.” Yes, Penne, you are right, and the auditor, for several years has been telling the city that they need to abide by the rules regarding allocation of overhead expenses to enterprise funds. The problem is: they don’t. It was not until “We the People” started to pressure them, that they even developed a plan for budgeting allocations. Their plan still does not properly allocate hard or soft costs appropriately.
3. “This lawsuit has already cost taxpayers over $10k in legal fees, and no telling how high it could go.” This suit would never have happened if the city had followed the law and rules of the auditor. The city could stop this tomorrow, but if history is our guide, they won’t.
4. “It should be a Washington State Statute that, if someone wants to file a lawsuit against a city, they should have to pay all the city’s legal costs upfront.” Maybe on Mars, but not in America; we’re not a fascistic state yet. What a ludicrous thing to say.
5. “I believe this is a back door attempt to bankrupt the city.” Not so. You apparently just choose to believe the untruths being tossed about at City Hall.
6. “This behavior (lawsuit) should be stopped.” By hanging? Or, would firing squads be more humane? The city could stop this tomorrow, if they chose to do what is right.
7. “Cities need to be accountable, but this can be accomplished through audits, reporting, and level heads.” I agree, government officials must be accountable. However, what happens when they’re not? What happens when the heads are level, but also corrupt?
8. “I can honestly say there is no way utility bills are higher in Sultan than surrounding towns and cities.” You cannot honestly say they are not higher. The facts simply are not on your side for this argument.
9. “Call Waste Management and ask what you would pay.” Waste Management is not authorized to service this area. But, Allied Waste is, and extensive evidence has been collected to show that they charge half what the city does. Repeat, HALF.
10. “What officials are getting paid is expensive, but officials have taken pay cuts on their own and last year presented to council not to increase their salaries.” Not so! Payroll has gone up every year. Right now, the non-union employees are fighting to get a 2.7% increase, across the board, because that’s what the city negotiated with the union. Just like in D.C., they’re saying that not getting this raise is really a cut in pay.
11. Penne, the rest of your comments from 11/28 at 4.23 pm are nothing but 1%/99% class warfare B.S. Actually, the Sultan Utility Stakeholders Group is defending the 99%, in this town, the city staff belong to the 1%.
12. “I’m so tired of people complaining about paying their bills.” This group is not complaining about paying its bills. This is about stopping the corrupt and blatant practice of billing utility ratepayers for overhead costs that are neither necessary, not beneficial to the utilities, an mandated by law and the auditor. Under the law, utilities must not pay for general government functions. The law is not being followed in Sultan.
13. “Funds are not being mismanaged.” This suit is not a matter of mismanagement; it is a matter of misappropriation of funds. If you’d done your research, you would have read the complaint and already known that.
Pennie
November 29, 2012 at 5:14 am
In response to Ray George it is apparent that you think your thoughts matter above all others. That is what makes this country such a great place to be born and raised. I am entitled to my opinion and I am fully aware of how to read court orders. I have been in the legal field as a Paralegal for 16 years. I am not going to feed in to your comments because frankly they are just that, comments. For some reason you feel as though you have to gang up with your wife even when decisions being made are wrong. I am frankly tired of people like you costing taxpayers more money because of the choices you make. Do you not have anything better to do with your time? I have a job, work in the community, raised 7 kids, and have 3 grandchildren that I would much rather be spending my time with then being disruptive and causing problems that myself and the city does not have the time for. Do not bother responding because as I said above I am not willing to engage in such ridiculous rhetoric with you. I hope that you can find peace at some point in your life and leave the city and its taxpayers alone.
Pennie Marshall
November 28, 2012 at 4:23 pm
I was raised in the Lynnwood/Mukilteo area and I can honestly say that there is no way that the utilities are higher in Sultan. Call Waste Management and Alderwood Water District and ask them what you would pay. There, it is two separate entities with all of their fees and taxes in addition to their admin fees, billing fees, etc. Do your research and look into how much city officials are making in other cities like Everett, Monroe, Mukilteo, Bellevue, Redmond, etc. What these officials are getting paid is expensive yes, but officials have taken pay cuts of their own and last yesr presented to council not to increase their salaries. What the residents are paying is less than what other cities are paying. You get what you pay for and these officials have exceeded their expectations and done a lot for our city such as doing things that could have been outsourced “inhouse” to save money and they have got our city to an A+ Credit Rating. Do your research and see how many cities in Washington can say that. People need to do their research befor they start attacking the very people who are making a positive difference in the community. 5k people is a lot of people for such a small area. The mayor runs the show, but someone has to administrate it, you can’t expect one person to do it all because you want to save $20 a year. How much do you spend on your coffee every morning? These kinds of things are more important than creating a better community where you live and are possibly raising your kids. If you do not live in Sultan, you should not be able to fuel the fire for these people who want nothing more than to un-incorporate Sultan or any where else they may end up living in the future because these people have money and nothing better to do all day.
Kathy
November 28, 2012 at 5:09 pm
$155 per month is what I pay in utilities to the city for my small family of 3. I only do garbage once a month and that’s not what’s gone up since I’ve been here. It’s been water & sewer. It’s more than doubled in the last 8 years. It was $70 a month for everything when I lived in Bellevue and my friend that still lives there pays $80 now. Lynnwood, yeah, lived there too. Still a lot less.
Oh, did they finally decide not to get a raise this year? Cause for the last 3-4, I’ve seen the reports of their increases…..as far as I can remember its been recession for that long and my water keeps going up.
I’m sorry but most other small towns don’t have both a mayor and a city admin that make near 6 digits a year especially ones that didn’t have funds to keep their own police department despite their growing drug problems. Funds are being mismanaged whether it’s from the utilities funds or not and it’s good someone is doing something about it.
Russ
December 31, 2012 at 10:29 pm
You do realize, Kathy, that the Mayor of Sultan makes a 4 digit salary…
Pennie Marshall
November 28, 2012 at 5:25 pm
Actually they decided not to take a pay increase last year. I understand that everyone has to pay for their consumption and maybe you should look in to any potential leaks going on in your pipes or under your house before you automatically jump and blame the city. The fact is we are growing and we are small, but not that small anymore. I have to ask how long ago did you live in Lynnwood and Bellevue? Have you physically called the different departments and asked them what their current fees are now in comparison? I am so tired of people complaining about paying their bills. No one likes to pay them, but most everyone does for the luxury of having your own home and being a part of the bigger picture – the community you chose to live in. You don’t have to reside in Sultan. If you can get cheaper cost of living in another city, why don’t you move there? Negativity brings people down and is unproductive for everyone that is inflicted by it. I do not see where a group of people who think the city is trying to pull the wool over their eyes can try to ruin it for the people who live here that like it here and understand the dynamics of running a city. As for the police department issue – We did not have any money to keep them because if you remember correctly the city was sued that lead to the police departments demise. Funds are not being mismanaged. The City of Sultan is audited every year and if you did your research, you would know this and this is one of the attributes to the A+ Credit Rating.
Kathy
November 28, 2012 at 5:41 pm
Um I have actually never gone over the allotted usage for water. I pay the same as the family of seven that lives down the street. I don’t have to call the cities when I’ve seen friends bills that live in other cities.
Choosing to cut a police department over additional non safety employees when there are serious drug problems in the community to me is mismanagement. They didn’t HAVE to cut that.
I’m not negative, I’m realistic. I plan to move out of town although selling my house may be an issue since my neighbors house has recently become a drug house and we don’t have the police man power to take care of it. But you’re right, we should keep spending money on making the town look pretty and high salaries. Never mind the increasing number of meth heads running the streets.
Marvin O
November 29, 2012 at 2:34 am
This sounds like the same political nonsense that has been present ever since I first came to Sultan in 1993. One group or another, for one reason or another, has always taken issue with the way city government is proceeding.
When they find it not to their liking, they take action politically, through election campaigning and council protests. If the outcome is still not what THEY (whichever interest group) want, it then moves to a LEGAL battle, always trying to force what THEY want onto everyone else regardless of the cost to the community.
The City Council and Mayor are elected to represent the citizenry in the manner they feel best serves the community. If the citizens disagree, they have recourse. They can make their feelings and opinions known at council, or to individual members directly; and at election time.
Obviously, the majority of the citizens of Sultan feel they’re doing a pretty good job. Having personally known the Mayor for almost 20 years I can tell you there is no one I have more respect and admiration for. She has always worked for the community above all else, both from her Mayoral position and while on the council.
People will always whine about wages, and salaries no matter what the actual topic is . . guess it’s like watching the news, try to find what people find “dramatic”. As to having a Mayor and a City Manager, the mayor’s position is technically part-time. I remember when the city was operated without a manager, by a mayor who worked full-time outside of town and it wasn’t pretty. Talk about always being on the verge of being sued!
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t always agree with what the council has done, and I’ve made my opinions heard. But lawsuits do nothing but impede progress and drain funds. I agree with Penny, anyone filing a lawsuit should be made to put up a bound to cover legal expenses of the city, and held responsible for the cost of the city having to defend against the charges should they lose.
Pennie
November 29, 2012 at 5:03 am
I appreciate and respect Marvin O’s statement above because he hit that nail right on the head. Thank you Marvin O. for your evaluation of what THEY are doing and what is really going on.
Kay George
November 29, 2012 at 4:31 am
I am Kay George, Councilperson #3 with the City of Sultan. I was elected by 70% of the voting public over a seated councilperson with a clear agenda that I would do all in my power to reduce the skyrocketing utility bills our city has experienced over the last 5 years. After only a few months in my position, I was able to uncover at least part of the reason for these high utility costs. These reasons are clearly documented in the complaint filed by the Sultan Utility Stakeholders’ Group. Because of my position, I will choose not to be a plaintiff in this class-action suit. However, I fully support the objectives of this group to force the city to follow the law, as the city does not appear to be willing to do so voluntarily.
For those who refuse to believe the facts set forth in this complaint, you too can choose not to become a plaintiff. For those who believe what is documented, you can choose to join the hundreds who want their utility bills lowered by forcing the City of Sultan to do the right thing.
I have met with the Sultan Utility Stakeholder’s Group and I assure you their goal is not to bankrupt the city. City Hall has spread this rumor in hopes to demonize people who simply want the city to follow the law which will in turn lower the ratepayers’ utility bills.
So, pick a side or stay neutral. Whatever you decide, I encourage you to get the facts, the real facts.
Pennie
November 29, 2012 at 5:00 am
Demonize? Are you kidding me? The City of Sultan has incurred over $10,000.00 in legal fees and you are trying to implicate them as being responsible for spreading rumors? Just because you were elected does not mean that the people that voted for you actually were paying attention and doing their research. You support a group of people who are suing the city that you were voted in as a council member to represent. You definitely have your priorities messed up. There is no picking sides and you should not be encouraging anyone to join your cause as a council member. Shame on you. I have the facts a lot more than you apparently do.
Bart Dalmasso
December 1, 2012 at 3:26 am
Pennie aren’t you Ken Marshall’s wife? Isn’t he a city councilmember? Aren’t you just repeating his talking points on this subject? Knowing you how is it possible for you to have grandchildren? I thought you were to youung for that.
As to the $10,000.00 being spent on legal fees by the city, that is just a drop in the bucket when compared to the amount the citizens are being overcharged. There are, according to our former city administrator, 1401 households in Sultan. There is not a breakdown that was offered as to commercial operations, multifamily etc., just households, in her statement. When you compare the cost savings of $10.40 per month per household by hiring Allied Waste, that comes out to a savings to the citizens of $14,570.40 per month or $174,844.80 per year.That doesn’t even take into consideration the amount of money businesses would save. That is only one area where we can save the taxpayers and ratepayers. Recently your husband said in an open council meeting a second impact fee should be charged should a ownership of a house change. The impact was paid for and now because of change of ownership he wants to charge a second impact fee? Would you and Ken have bought your house if the city said, oh by the way that’s $8 or $10,000.00 in impact fees because you’re a new owner?
When the citizens are suffering and struggling just to put food on their tables, or to keep from having their homes taken away from them, It is time for the city to find ways to lower the cost of government.
There are at least 3 companies doing pre-foreclosure work in Sultan. I am one of them. Based on the number I do every month in this city I would say that most likely 1 in 10 are in some kind of danger in losing their homes to foreclosure.
Maybe, it’s time to renegotiate the union contract also and get small cuts in salary and benefits. We have 18 city employees, the last time I checked, their cost to the citizens of Sultan is over $1,500,000.00 a year, with raises for all in 2013 and most of them don’t even live in the city. The average income with benefits is nearly double the average household income in Sultan. While the rest of the world is suffering from drastic cuts in pay our city employees get a raise. Aren’t they our employees? Shouldn’t we be entitled to say enough is enough?
Pennie
December 1, 2012 at 5:25 pm
Yes I am Ken Marshall wife. And your point? I have my own mind, my own thoughts, and my opinion. I am with Marvin on this. There should be a bond requirement to protect us from people like you that cost taxpayers money on ridiculous lawsuits like this. The amount of money you think you will be saving Sultan taxpayers they are actually having to pay more to cover the litigation fees to defend this suit. In comparison, there is no way and no evidence has been produced showing cities like Bellevue, Everett, Mukilteo, and Snohomish pay less. They pay A LOT more. You need to remember that some of these cities don’t include all of their services under one bill like Sultan does.
Point being is that the City of Sultan is audited every year so what you are saying is the auditors are not doing their job correctly?
For some reason this group has it out for the city and it is not fair to people like me who happen to like living here and do not have a problem with the taxes paid (because I have paid more living in Lynnwood/Mukilteo) or a problem with the city officials. Fact of the matter is you can’t please everyone all of the time. This is my opinion Bart and I am entitled to it. I don’t need you trying to force your opinion that you are forcing down the throats of taxpayers of Sultan who don’t have a problem with the utility taxes and like our city officials. That is why we vote!
I am not getting in to a back and forth fiasco with you or any one else regarding this because it is pointless and will go no where. You have your mind made up for right or for wrong. Again, this is my opinion.
Al Wirta
December 1, 2012 at 10:36 pm
So Penny, how is someone elses opinion shoved down your throat? Just askin’.
Pennie Marshall
December 3, 2012 at 9:19 pm
Al, these people affiliated with the lawsuit do not understand how good we have it compared to other cities and because of this it is costing Sultan residents far more and this is what I feel is being forced down my throat. Why should anyone have to pay for this litigation if they don’t agree with it? They should be required to file a bond to ensure if they lose, taxpayers don’t have to pay for their costly litigation.
Bart Dalmasso
December 5, 2012 at 10:48 pm
It is interesting that you compare Sultan to much larger cities, each with their own set of differences. How about comparing Sultan to a similar size city, say Montesano where they pay $80.18 for the city provided services. That includes water, sewer, garbage, recycliny, and EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE. $12.12 of that $80.18 is for EMS, which we pay extra for on our property taxes. By the way a few years back when I compared our city provided services to Monroe, I was told by our then city administrator that was not a good comparison as they were a larger city than us. Montesano is smaller than us by about 500 people.
I am trying to remain civil but I don’t see how $10,000.00 in attorney fees compares to over $174,000.00 a year in savings. Using your logic, why should anyone have to pay excessive fees to any administration if they don’t agree with it?
One final thing I believe everyone has a right to their own opinion, you, Ray George, Marvin O and myself. Our Constitution clearly provides us ways to defend our beliefs. I don’t want to take any of those rights away from anyone, even if I disagree with them. Incidentally, I believe Marvin O no longer lives in Sultan, and hasn’t for several years. Even though that may be the case, he’s entitled to his opinion. We taxpeyers and rate payers that live here are the ones paying for it.
Pennie Marshall
December 5, 2012 at 11:52 pm
Montesano is not comparable either at 500 less people. The City of Snohomish residents I believe pay the highest rates and I don’t see them filing lawsuits against the city because they are smart enough to know that in the end they will be paying for the services provided and the litigation expenses. Costly mistake unless the alterior motive is to bankrupt the city to dissolve it which is ultimately what I believe you want Bart and will go to great extremes to try to make that happen. Again, my opinion. Being in the legal field, $10k is only the begining and is no where close to what the taxpayers will be forced to pay for after this is all settled and you know it. Trying to remain civil Bart? Why wouldn’t you be? Everyone is entitled to their opinion even if you are trying to force your opinion upon me. Marvin may or may not live in Sultan, but again that is irrelevant. I also did not know that you paid taxes.
chuck lie
December 6, 2012 at 4:03 am
As a former city council person in Gold Bar, I learned two general rules. The first is that the city is never wrong. The second is that when the city is wrong, refer to rule number one.
This paradigm needs to be dealt with. It will be a long time before I trust a city government. This is after being on the planning commision and being on the city council here in Gold Bar. The entire model needs to be re thought. But alas, life is short, I will not hold my breath. But I will cheer on those that have the time and energy. Keep up the good work Bart and Kay.
Pennie Marshall
December 6, 2012 at 4:14 pm
Way to go Chuck….encourage bullying, negative, and attacking behavior. Got to blame someone so why not city government when it was the people who voted them in. Oh wait…you were on the city government. So you were contributing to the city government mentality that you claim is the problem. People never cease to amaze me.
Bart Dalmasso
December 7, 2012 at 3:37 am
For your information anyone who owns real estate pays taxes, anyone who buys anything, except groceries and gun safes, pay taxes, anyone who pays city utility bills pay taxes. I could go on and on, but won’t.
Why is me speaking my opinion trying to force you to accept my beliefs and you speaking your opinion not trying to force me to accept your beliefs? My desire is to pay the least amount possible for anything I purchase whether it is a new car or city utilities. I don’t wish to bankrupt any entity.
For your information should the city opt to go to allied waste for garbage service, I would actually pay about $1.00 per month more for garbage service as they don’t have a senior benefit. But about 1350 of the 1401 households in Sultan would pay about one half of the city charges. Don’t you like saving over $100.00 or more a year on anything?
I see we have another non-resident chiming in. I guess if it’s ok for Marvin, it should be ok for Chuck to voice his opinion.
One more thing, according to the Everett Herald 47% of the kids in Sultan schools are receiving subsidies for lunch. Based on my pre-foreclosure inspection business about 1 in 15 to 20 homes in Sultan are in eminent foreclosure. These people need help not the unnecessary and extreme higher cost that the city imposes. Have some compassion on your neighbors! Without being specific there are at least 3 homes in your small development that I know of that are having financial difficulties.
I was lucky, I have a wealthy relative who loaned me the money to buy the bank out, or I would have been foreclosed on. I fought the foreclosure for 4 years before my relative came to my rescue. Most if not all of the people faced with losing their homes don’t have that option. Think about your neighbors. You can always pay more to the city if you want to, that’s your option. I believe the city has a fund established to help the citizens, but I doubt there’s any money in it.
In conclusion, the potential high rate of foreclosures in Sultan will reduce property values and hence the income to the city even more. This will reslt in more negative reactions with more and more people trying to sell their homes for less than what they owe, thus reducing the values even further. If the citizens don’t get a break everywhere they can it will be the actions of the city that will destruct itself. I don’t want that. I’ve lived in many places in Washington in my 73 years here and I’ve got to say the citizens of Sultan are the best
Bart Dalmasso
December 8, 2012 at 2:19 am
One item I inadvertently neglected to respond to was Pennies objection to the use of Montesano as a comparable to Sultan. In the classes I took prior to doing appraisals we were told to find properties most like the subject. Sultan in the 2010 census had a population of 4,651. Montesano’s population was 3,976. The cities you cite as examples, Bellevue, Everett, Mukilteo and Snohomish all have much larger population than Sultan. According to the 2010 census their population is as follows: Bellevue-122,363, Everett-103,019, Mukilteo-20,254 and Snohomish-9,098. Incidentally one of my cousins, who live in Everett, just told me his City utility bill was much less than what the average is here. Also in reference to these other cities look at how much more enterprise they have there.
Another item is in reference to a statement you made in an earlier posting in which you stated “Point being is that the City of Sultan is audited every year” I believe it is every two years, not every year.
I will close this comment of mine with; I feel your statement in that same posting that if people don’t like what they are paying here they can move somewhere else is very elitist. People don’t live here because of what the city charges, but in spite of it, usually because the cost of purchasing housing is less than elsewhere.
Pennie
December 9, 2012 at 2:41 am
Bart – I could go back and forth with you, but it is pointless and goes no where. It does not matter to you what the facts are. People will say things about what they pay and they say they pay less. How about actual documentation to back it up. I do have a say in the fact that I do not like having to pay for litigation expenses on a lawsuit because citizens of Sultan think something is being misappropriated. I just love spending more of my money for the city to defend itself and you are trying to act like you are helping everyone. Conversation on here is over. Good luck to you and yours.